Compression method debate

Dirka_Dirka · 2010-05-25 02:00:22

I see you have a twitter post about what method to use. I don't do twitter, so I'm responding here.

The campaign definitely must be in vpk format for the widest usage.. However, it's basically not compressed for distribution.

For downloading it, that depends on the site you release it on. If your hosting it from here and here only, packing it up in any format is fine, but .zip is basically a standard (anyone with Windows XP or newer can open it). Also other hosting sites pretty much require the zip format.

vkdemon · 2010-05-25 05:24:42

7zip would be good...

Cameron:D · 2010-05-25 09:06:15

Whatever is smallest (Which was 7zip)

aragorn · 2010-05-27 02:31:41

I would prefer vpk....it's the usual addon campaigns format..
i don't have 7zip

Slade · 2010-05-27 02:35:29

Well, 7zip is quick to be downloaded. Google it.

Cameron:D · 2010-05-27 06:31:56

aragorn wrote:

I would prefer vpk....it's the usual addon campaigns format..
i don't have 7zip

It will still be distributed as a VPK file, inside the RAR/zip/whatever

StuKKa · 2010-05-27 17:18:35

7zip is freeware and one of the best packaging programs i know. You also could release it in different formats, so the people could choose. Also think about the mac users (poor pigs *g*), i don't know if a mac os could handle zip or 7zip files.
And what i have to say, if the package is not to big (>500MB) I could also mirror the file on our community page.

NykO18 · 2010-05-27 17:30:51

Sure the package won't be too large, between 200 and 265 MB depending on the format. We were going to go with RAR, but ncom0pl on Twitter just reminded me that it's not really recommended for Linux. I must say that he's right, last time I tried to extract the campaign from a RAR on our development server with unrar-free, it constantly failed.

I really like 7zip format, it's clean, powerful and everything... but I really don't like being emailed ten times a day by people who don't know how to extract it. Which mean we'll probably go with a standard and bloated Zip archive.

PS: Of course the VPK will be inside, we won't release without a VPK.

Cameron:D · 2010-05-28 06:15:54

WinZip does better compression than the standard in-Windows compressor does IIRC

vkdemon · 2010-05-28 10:56:15

You can create a .zip format using 7zip with "Ultra Compression" setting enabled. This would be better than using WinRAR or something else for creating .zip archives... IMHO

Last edited by vkdemon (2010-05-28 10:57:14)

NykO18 · 2010-05-28 16:33:07

vkdemon wrote:

You can create a .zip format using 7zip with "Ultra Compression" setting enabled. This would be better than using WinRAR or something else for creating .zip archives... IMHO

Of course, that's what we do. But this is still 65 MB larger than a 7zip. But I guess 65 MB doesn't make that much of a difference.

hoak · 2010-05-31 18:57:45

While I'm personally indifferent to compression method used; I'd like to see the widest adoption of this mod so there are as many people to play with as is possible/practical. To that end, and creating the smallest volume of support traffic and end user frustration I'd suggest using no, or ZIP compression (with the default compression ratio) as it's already supported on all user's PCs.

NykO18 · 2010-05-31 20:51:26

Yeah, ZIP will probably be the best but still... when we released Portal: Prelude for Mac a few days ago, not every version of the ZIP archive could be opened everywhere. Kinda frustrating.

hoak · 2010-05-31 23:21:49

I believe if you use the Zip tool in Windows (XP, Vista, 7, 2003/8) it employs licensed 'default/normal' Zip compression that should get you the most compatibility across the most platforms.

It's 'Zip Compatible' archivers and/or using non default levels of compression that typically use heavily modified/tweaked forks of Zip that will break compatibility.

You could also solicit L4D Fans to see if you can find someone with experience to build sexy installers for the respective platforms -- but separating good intentions from skill and experience in building installers can be a chore all it's own...

NykO18 · 2010-06-01 08:03:49

hoak wrote:

I believe if you use the Zip tool in Windows (XP, Vista, 7, 2003/8) it employs licensed 'default/normal' Zip compression that should get you the most compatibility across the most platforms.

Well, yes, I downloaded Winzip just to be sure

hoak wrote:

It's 'Zip Compatible' archivers and/or using non default levels of compression that typically use heavily modified/tweaked forks of Zip that will break compatibility.

Typically 7zip for example, a good tool but it creates incorrect zip archives for most systems and un-archivers.

hoak wrote:

You could also solicit L4D Fans to see if you can find someone with experience to build sexy installers for the respective platforms -- but separating good intentions from skill and experience in building installers can be a chore all it's own...

I know how to build one of those fancy installers, but we don't need one, there's only one file to distribute, I think people will be fine installing it

ncom0pl · 2010-06-01 14:13:12

NykO18 wrote:

Yeah, ZIP will probably be the best but still... when we released Portal: Prelude for Mac a few days ago, not every version of the ZIP archive could be opened everywhere. Kinda frustrating.

That's probably because ZIP format itself is just a kind of a container. A container that can store data compressed with different compression algorithms, so there's always going to be a little risk of incompatibility.

NykO18 wrote:

I know how to build one of those fancy installers, but we don't need one, there's only one file to distribute, I think people will be fine installing it

I completely agree. You can either copy the vpk file by hand, or just open it with the addon installer provided with l4d, and it'll do the whole drag-and-drop work for you.

hoak · 2010-06-01 16:44:12

NykO18 wrote:

I know how to build one of those fancy installers, but we don't need one, there's only one file to distribute, I think people will be fine installing it

Well, as a fellow Developer, we both know a source mod compiled into a vpk is as easy as dragging and dropping the one file in a directory; but, as ridiculous as it sounds, there are people that will screw that up, that don't understand basic OS concepts as simple as files and directories.

While an installer does offer a potential additional source for issues, and is extra work -- it is a nice way to put a polished touch on what already gives the impression of a very professional mod/expansion, an additional opportunity to take credit for your hard work, and to source the work when it's in some obscure archive perhaps decades from now.

Just saying...

NykO18 · 2010-06-01 18:10:48

When we did Portal: Prelude, it brought us far more troubles than a simple ZIP file. First when it refused to work on computers where the main user was not the administrator, then when people got a corrupted download and the installer still installed half good/half crap, then when people got their registry screwed somewhere and the installer wasn't finding the correct keys and installed itself randomly, then when Windows Vista came out and suddenly nothing was compatible anymore, and recently, when they released Portal for Mac OS, where those poor mac-users had to use a Windows virtual machine to extract it... that was fucked up, we'll never use installers anymore for that kind of project. It gave us far more headaches than it cured them.

hoak · 2010-06-01 18:44:28

LOL, well this is what I meant by 'good intentions vs. skill & experience' -- at the company I last worked for we contracted a Developer where all he did was build installers for products -- and a good installer system will always:

· self checks its own CRC and report a corruption
· bypass rights issues and/or prompt for Admin
· check both the registry and file-system to install to correct path
· will work across all Windows platforms

There are many installer builders that fail miserably, and I concede it's a lot of work even to get the good ones to function properly, and if you're the one doing the work -- the call is obviously yours to make at the end of the day.

But, there are often Professional Developers in the Audience that own a licensed installer system that are more then willing to help out, and there's little risk if you offer your game in multiple formats. That millions of games and software products are installed every day with installers by 'Noobs' without a hitch is a fair demonstration it can work.

NykO18 · 2010-06-01 22:13:49

But not on Mac OS.
Debate closed

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